Are you ready to unlock the secrets of entrepreneurship and discover how to steer your business towards incredible growth? Join my guest Carl Gould and I, as we delve deep into the world of business expansion, operations, and scaling strategies.
This episode is a treasure trove of entrepreneurship wisdom, growth strategies, and invaluable advice for overcoming the challenges that come your way.
So, if you’re eager to supercharge your business and take it to new heights, stay tuned.
About the Guest:
Carl Gould is an authority on business growth who advises organizations to get to the next level. Delivered more than 1000+ Keynote Speeches, Carl’s dynamic and energetic presentation style has made him one of the most sought-after speakers internationally.
He combines practical and impactful content with real-world experience…no theory here! He engages his audiences and keeps them on the edge of their seat. Gould’s content is original, profound, and battle-tested. https://carlgould.com/speaker/
Connect with Carl
About the Host:
Jim Padilla is the founder and CEO of Gain The Edge – a done-for-you provider of industry-leading sales systems and unicorn sales professionals which he co-heads with his wife and entrepreneurial partner-in-crime, Cyndi Padilla.
Through their unique blend of laser-targeted selling systems, inspirational team-building expertise, and 60+ years of combined sales experience – Jim and his wife have generated over 1/4 bn in sales for a long line of high-level, visionary entrepreneurs.
Jim’s mission is to help purpose-driven thought-leaders untangle themselves from the day-to-day minutiae of seeking leads and sales for their business so they’re free to amplify their impact.
When Jim’s not making dollars rain down from the sky, you’ll regularly find him at the driving range – hitting a bucket of balls. Jim credits his time on the driving range as the main source of his best ideas.
Recently relocated back to California, Jim & Cyndi are immersing themselves in family time with their three daughters & four (soon to be five) grandchildren.
Connect with Jim at https://jimp360.com
If you want to see more great content like this, make sure to subscribe and ring the bell so you will get notified whenever we post a new video. And don’t forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts.
Hey, everybody, welcome back. So Carl, why don't you tell the opportunity makers audience a little bit more about you from your end of the equation?Carl Gould:
Sure. Well, it for me, I got into entrepreneurship literally by injury, accident and injury, I was a sophomore at University of Delaware and I broke my leg pretty badly, I needed to leave school, I was in a cast for three months with a straight leg cast, and three more months and physical therapy, learning how to walk again, and, and when all of my scholarships dried up, and my grants dried up. And then all of a sudden, I, I had to start paying back my student loans. And I'm like, I got to do something to make money. And I had, I knew how to do design, build landscaping, because I had done that in high school. And so I started my first business. And that's what got me into entrepreneurship when I was 18 years old.Jim Padilla:
Very cool. And how did that spin off? I mean, knowing you, and probably you built it to something and turn that employees and other people running it for you. AndJim Padilla:
well, you know, interestingly enough, in the beginning, the business was successful, it doubled every year for the seven years that I owned it and then I sold it. But I was I was still very much in the business. I did have subcontractors and I had a team. But it was at a time when landscape design and installation work was becoming a lot more formalized and more professional. And there was a very innovative time where the concrete modular wall blocks that we all use now and the paving stones that was all playing out right then late 80s, early 90s. So there was a lot of there's a lot of innovation at the time. And so it was a really exciting time, and people were using this as a real, you know, significant business. And so it was very opportune. But it wasn't my passion. I mean, I was doing it to make money because I, you know, I was literally at home broke with a broken leg. So I needed, I needed something to get me really going. And so after seven years, I needed a surgery on my leg again. And that was about the right time to sell the business. I did sell it. And then I then I started a home construction, real estate development and general contracting firm. How did that happen? What was what was the impetus that all of that?Carl Gould:
Well, I was I grew up in the trades. So both sides of my family were in construction, they were builders. So I was very, very familiar with that. And so, you know, it seemed much more natural to do that. I had that business from 1992 through 2004. And that and that served me really well. But I actually started coaching in 1990 with Tony Robbins and Stephen Covey and Ken Blanchard and the Dale Carnegie Leadership Program, and LP and disk and all of those modalities and you know, peak performance Sciences of the time. And I that's where my passion lies. I really love the coaching, really enjoyed it, totally got into it, immerse myself in it, and decided that that's what I wanted my life to be about one when you know when I grew up, right, so in 2002, I started the business that I have today, I was a solo coach all through the 90s. And then in 2002, I grew it into the business that it is today.Jim Padilla:
Yeah, well, that's an opportunity and of itself, right. I mean, there's a lot of people who listen to this, or experts, coaches, entrepreneurs, and they're really solopreneurs. And many of them are I would dare say a lot of people don't even have a business, but more of a practice. And what's what's making that jump from your from your lens?Carl Gould:
Well, it's really good point because in the beginning, when I was a coach, there are studies about how many coaches are there worldwide. And all that and back then in the 2000s. You know, if there was a study done, that I participated in, that showed there about 50,000 coaches worldwide, about 30,000 that had credentialed, the average coach made a part time coach made like 20,020 $3,000 a year, a full time coach made about 70. And according to the study from the mid 2000s Today, you go on LinkedIn and typing coach, you get over 2 million responses. I mean, it's really blown up number of people that call themselves coaches are huge. And but in the beginning, I was very much a coaching practice. I was one guy and I worked with my I worked with my clients really enjoyed it. But you you know, you spend eight hours of back to back to back to back to back, you know, client sessions and after a while you realize this is quite a schedule. And I did I had a pretty intense schedule. One I was funny when I was a Tony Robbins coach, one of the things that I really was terrible at was reenrollment. And so you would get a client you'd have to work with them for three sessions, six sessions, 12 sessions, whatever the amount was, but basically three to six months somewhere in there. And then they said, Well, you know, as you draw near the end, you should start to talk to them about reenrollment. And I used to take coaching very literal, if you came to me, you wanted to work on something we added, we hadn't worked out, I'd be like, alright, well, nothing left to talk about. So I guess we're done. And so what I learned was, I needed to widen the scope of the engagement. And I needed to have more reasons for the client, and I'd have to work on and, and they're all They're always already there. Because if there's, if there's a problem you're having right now, it's rarely the problem, it's almost always the symptom. So if you say my sales are down, that's a simple money's tight symptom, processes aren't working symptom, I don't have enough clients don't have the right kind of plants, those are all symptoms. And so whenever there's one issue, it impacts all the other areas of your life, and all the other areas of your business. And so I, I developed a methodology where you, I can ask you a series of questions, and I can understand what's going on in the eight to nine areas of your life and the eight to nine areas of your business? Well, there are a number of people that would say, Well, yeah, could you help me in the area of finance? Could you help me in the area of marketing? Could you help me in the area of staffing or, or HR or ops, you name it. And so you know, no one coaches all things to all people. So I built a team. And I look at a business now in four quadrants, strategy, business, bizdev, ops, and finance. And I made sure that in every client, we had four subject matter experts, and those subjects for subject matter experts can look at a business all at once, and say, Okay, if we make more money, how does that affect the finance or we bring in more sales finance, if we have more, you know, if we bring if our strategies to grow in this area, what does that do to operations. And so, so to me, the difference between a practice and a business is a practice is very much a personality driven company, it's not very process driven. You, you know, you're usually an owner operator of some sort, you diagnose. you diagnose, prescribe a problem, a solution and solve that solution. So think like an auto mechanic, I diagnose the squeak under the hood, you need new brakes, I'm gonna go fix those brakes. A surgeon, I see the problem that's got to be removed, I'm going to do it, right. A business is much more of a an assembly line, almost every business is an assembly line. It is a process by which something happens without, without any one person, any one person involved in the whole thing. So if you've ever gone to an auto manufacturing facility, if they're doing it right, there's not one person inside that plant that has ever built a car, although they spit out cars, go go, go, go, go, go go. There's not one person in it that's ever built one. Right? What have they done? Well, they are the right rear door rivet technician, right. And they installed the right rear door all day long. And they've done it for 15 years, they got so good at it, guess what? They were made the manager of the right rear door installation department. They've never built a car. And so so a business is, no matter what kind it is service, business product manufacturing distribution, it's an assembly line. So to me, that's the that's the difference between the two.Jim Padilla:
So what is the simplest step aside from working with you or company like you? What, what can we give people as a quick transition to move from a practice to a business? who's listening right now?Carl Gould:
Well, first thing, if you want to go for our practice to the business, first thing you want to do is look at what you they call your throughput. Throughput is just a fancy term for from the time I get a lead, I make a sale, I get my deposit, I deliver on whatever the product or service is, then I get paid lead to to you know, delivery is throughput. I would take that and map it out. I would map out every little step. And then who does what, in what sequence. Now I've got this map, right? It's a workflow, you know, kind of like a relay race, you know, you pass the baton from one person to the next. Well, who does box number one. Who does box number two, who does box number three? Who does box number four? Who does box number five. So if I'm a restaurant and I serve burgers, I want to say okay, Well, somebody walks up to the cash register, they order the orders placed, right, somebody has to assemble the ingredients, somebody cooks the meat, right, then somebody puts all the pieces together, it gets wrapped up, and it's handed back across who so in that sequence that I just I just mapped out, there might have been either somebody at the drive thru, drive thru window, that's the one cashier or they walked up, okay, so that person touches it, it goes to a facilitator, then it goes to the cook or chef, then it goes back to the facilitator, wrap it up and back. Okay, so who does what, in what order? So I map it out, I understand all the steps. And then in, then what I do is I decide what is a win at every step? What is success at every step, and who's in charge of that step. Now I've got a process, I've got a team. And so once I have that, now I can assign a person to a box, I've got a measure of success for each of those boxes. And now I've got a team working on the same plan at the same time. Now I have the beginnings of a business. Now, I could still be an owner operator, or I run from box to box, or I can have different people at every step of the way. And as soon as I have that I've got a business. I've gone from practice to business.Jim Padilla:
Excuse me. Yeah, that's, that's a very ugly lay that out. But that's also coaching level. I mean, what percentage of the people you work with are in that journey now? versus, you know, the people who are trying to exit a company or playing a much bigger game, now that you are involved as as a coach? Yeah, well,Carl Gould:
98% of all businesses are under 20 employees. So most of the businesses out there are owner operated businesses, the engineer, the accountant, the the, the car mechanic, the surgeon, you know, the singer, the speaker, owner operated businesses, and most of them are service businesses. Now, we work with businesses that typically you more and more are in that mid market, you know, over a million up to 50 million in that area. And, and that's only 4%. You know, 4%, on the high side, when you hit 1,000,000.4% of businesses, once you get to 10 million. So we're working with a very narrow subset of the businesses, we're working with that top one to 2%, you know, most of the time, and but we, you know, earlier in my career, you know, we launched over 5000 companies. So we very much know how, how that small business works. So, but most businesses are that, you know, that micro business owner operated business that you just mentioned.Jim Padilla:
How do you describe your business? Because, you know, it's interesting that I mean, I know, your seven sage advisors, you have your computer, you have a you have a very strong reputation in what you do as well. But in my mind, until you said it today, I don't think I've ever actually thought of you as a coach, as a strategic advisor as a business, you know, you're because it's not a practice maybe. Right.Carl Gould:
Right. Yeah, it's a business now for sure. And so we have systems for lead generation, we have systems for once we generate the leads for the sales process, we have the onboarding process of a Client Onboarding of a client, then we have our first phase of delivery, we call our discovery process, then we have we have, there's a number of finance and administrative tasks that go in between that. And then our second phase, which is our seven stage mastery, then that, you know, takes on its own its own life, and there's a delivery mechanism for that, and I'm not involved in, you know, I'm not involved in all those pieces. And so, like I said, we assigned four subject matter experts to a client, I might be one of them. I'm not four, I'm one. And and in some cases, I'm not involved at all. So because maybe, you know, because the team, that client is better suited to other members of the team. And so we have very clearly defined roles. And I do what I call micro segment, the process, I like to break processes down into tiny bits. You know, like, if you're a baseball fan, I hit singles, or I like to singles and doubles. Just like Moneyball does get on base, you get on base, you get more runs, you get more runs, you get more wins, you know, so I think of it, I think of it like that. If some if somebody is struggling in a role, we've probably asked them to do too much or it's too complicated. If I can break it down. Even if one person does multiple steps of a process. I'm still broken it down, like Oh, I could get that piece and do that piece to that piece isn't so bad. You know, and then they can they can, they can consume it if you know what I mean.Jim Padilla:
So what do you see as the biggest challenge for people? You know, we talked about that the top 2% I've been blessed in our business, we primarily work with a large the top 10% of businesses to how can more people get in there with with today's with what's available today in the marketplace, is easier now to launch a business than it's ever been. And to be able to experience some levels of success. What what is the hang of what is the biggest barriers for people to not be able to penetrate the those those levels? Well,Carl Gould:
I think you kind of touched on it there already. And it's technology technology's made it easier for anyone to get into business. But really what technology has done is made it a lot easier for you to be self employed. Right? So if I used to be I could just have somebody call me a cab? No, not anymore. I use Uber or Lyft. But I can't use somebody else's, I can't be like, Hey, Jim, let me use your phone to book I've got I have to go on my phone, right to book it. So now I'm the dispatch. And then when I get in there, I've got to you know, I want to send a message, I'd got to send it because on Slack or on, you know, teams, I have my user profile, so only I can do it. So it's empowered the individual, but it's also locked the individual into a job. And so technology has created this massive self employed gig side hustle. Culture, which is amazing. But it does get in the way of scaling. Because no, you know, what, if I want to, for example, I want to have somebody send me an email, and I want my team to read that email. It's a little easier, although tricky, you know, usernames and passwords and all that. But if we're on a communication app, it's a lot harder, right, they can't just log into my particular communication app, I've got to be the one to do it, they can't just read it. You know, there's double authentication and, and privacy and security that silos the individual. So So you almost have to break free a little bit of technology and use of different technologies, in order for you to scale. Because the technology that most of us use are designed to silo the worker on their own, right. And for all the right reasons, it's not it's not a bad thing. It's just it is what it is. Now you want to get to the next level, the tools and the processes and systems that made you really efficient and effective at a micro level are not really good at a macro level. For example, if you're a CEO, you're a founder and you're an owner operator, you probably gave somebody your cell phone number. Okay, great in the beginning, because you can multitask while you're while you're, you know, changing the brakes, you can answer the phone, probably close the sale, get the next customer in. Awesome. Right now, once you become a business, having given out your cell phone is not a scalable, not a scalable process. So you have to look at you have to earn tech yourself a little bit. And, and so so you can get to processes that are scalable, then you put the appropriate tech on it. But most of the tech out there is designed to silo off the individual.Jim Padilla:
Yeah, we were just talking with some marketing companies the other day, and we're talking about AD ad campaign strategies, specifically around Facebook. And one of the things that we see consistently, as a very interesting, you know, paradox is companies that are generating ads are typically companies where the founder is not doing the day to day, if you have a big ad campaign strategy, yet. They don't want it Facebook does everything I can to prohibit somebody else from logging into your profile to manage those leads that come in. Right, right? Well, if I'm generating ads, I'm not the guy who's talking to those people. Because my AD team is doing that. You know, but they want me to be the guy who's talking to those people in this. Like, there's there's very interesting dynamics that have to be solved. And that's just one example of how all these apps are working now.Carl Gould:
Yeah, cuz technology for all of its benefits, there are certain things that just simply can't do and it can't prevent fraud. They can't keep you totally safe, you know. And so, you know, so I know web three is coming along and with Blockchain, and there'll be some enhancements. But still, at the end of the day, no matter what process we're on, if you give me your username and password to go in under your name, it still becomes a challenge, you know, so So yeah, technology still has made our lives a lot better. And it's got a ways to go in if we're thinking of scaling our businesses.Jim Padilla:
So what about what do you have to guidance and encouragement around for people who are who really They want to take their business to that next level get out of being a solopreneur start running it like a business. But it's scary right now. I mean, the economy is doing weird things. There's a lot of fear based marketing that's going on and people are circling the wagons running for cover, instead of, you know, doing the opposite. Yeah.Carl Gould:
So I remember, in 2016, we I was working with a company offshore, that was a BPO business process outsourcing. And at the time, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were running for president. And at the time, Hillary Clinton was ahead, and this company was hiring in mass. And I said, Why are you hiring you dizzy? They said, Oh, no, but we will be. And I said, What do you mean? And they said, Well, if a Democrat gets in, it wasn't so much about Hillary versus Donald. But if a Democrat gets in, the policies will not be as business friendly. And we will get a lot of business. So since a Democrat is winning, we're ramping up our staffing. I said, What would happen if a Republican wins? And they said, well, doesn't look likely because Trump was behind most of that time. But if a Republican came in, we would not be hiring because they'll make it more business friendly. And we will get as much business. So Oh, that's interesting. Right? So here's what's happening with all the volatility and the change and the transformation that has been coming and is continues to come. It does create other opportunities. And what has happened is where you used to have somebody who was local to your geography local to your office, and we come into the office, we now have remote employees. As a matter of fact, technology has gotten so good that these remote employees can be anywhere in the world. Now, we what we say to our clients is staff to the valleys, subcontract to the peaks are outsourced to the piece. In other words, if you are a solopreneur, right now, here are your your first two hires. Number one is hire a finance person, you can get a fractional CFO, outsource, bookkeeper, and outsource. Okay, because you need somebody who can handle your numbers, and somebody who can tell you, you know, what the financial consequence or opportunity is of your your decision. Okay, so that's number one. Because if you run out of cash, you're out of the game. Second one is you need an assistant, somebody to handle the administrivia of your life, somebody that just handle the software and pull the reports and, and you know, hand manage your calendar and clear out your inboxes because you want to be able to focus on revenue generating activities as much as possible. And if you are the owner of your business, and let's say your business is $500,000 a year, and your 2000 hours in a year, you're worth $250 an hour. So are you really want to pay somebody 20 or $50 an hour to clear your inbox, I doubt that you probably want you probably want, you probably want somebody who you're paying five, seven $10 an hour that can do that repetitive task all day long. As a general rule of thumb, Jim, we think of it as if it's done on a screen, and it's a recurring task, it can likely be outsourced. So look at all of your recurring tasks and look at everything that happens on a screen and say, I can likely outsource that to someone else. And remember, remember how we broke down everything into boxes, I can assign certain boxes to my outsourced staff. And then I just do the boxes I have to. That's where you start. You give everything make a list of everything you do every day, start at the bottom meaning the easiest, most simple, basic, recurring tasks that happen on a screen and hand that off to a hand that off to an outsourced assistant. That's where you start.Jim Padilla:
Yeah, we've subscribed in recent years to a pay philosophy around his hands versus head, you're talking about peaks and valleys. Hands, people and head people and hands. People are the ones who implement heads. People are the ones who create the systems they implement. Right? So you feel you know, you want to make sure you're bringing on investing in the quality talent for the peak people that need to create the strategies and the processes and then those who need to execute on them are the ones where you said that can be done with a fairly, you know, fairly economically.Carl Gould:
Yeah, no doubt and we it's funny whenever I'm working with a service based business, I say I asked who wears boots to work and who's wear shoes to work. If you wear boots, you're out in the field. Like you said, You're the hands people you're doing something you're getting dirty, can outsource that group. I can't scale that group if you if you're a tree trimmer I can't scale you, I can get more of you, I can make us bigger. But I can't scale you, you can only climb so many trees at a time. However, in the office, I can, I can have one person run the books for two or three businesses, I can have one person do the HR, multiple businesses, I could have the you know, do the finances, do the marketing, do the sales, right, I can scale those that wear shoes to work. And I can always scale the ones that wear boots, Stork,same concept.Jim Padilla:
Definitely I like that. So Carl, you know, we've known each other for about a year now in our mastermind that we've been a part of, and you have always been somebody that I have immense respect for, you have a wealth of knowledge and, and not just the have the ability to, to know the things but to be able to impart them and people very simply. And that's a that's a rare talent. And I want to just tap into you right now for the people that are listening who are, you know, who are really afraid about what next steps are coming? Is their business going to survive? Should they save every penny they have? Should they go all in on acquiring a company? I mean, what are they? How do you make freakin decisions like that in a marketplace like this today?Carl Gould:
Yeah, look, it's a tricky, it's a tricky time. When times get volatile, the weaker companies are weeded out. And so if you stick to good fundamentals, you will be fine. Now, just like in good times, if you are business under $5 million, you can hustle your way to 5 million. Right. And most of the people that are listening here, you don't need any significant market share in order to hit your goals. That's a good thing. You're not Coca Cola, you don't have to control 60% of the refrigerated shelf space in supermarkets in order for you to meet your your projections. You know, if you sell a beverage, well guess what you could put cases in the back of your car, you can go around to every independent store. And you could say I'd like to put my beverages here for people to buy, and you can hustle your way around. And so that's a good thing. When I started my first business, it was the late 80s during a real estate recession. And I started a home improvement company in the worst real estate recession in the last 50 years. Right. And that business doubled every year for seven years during a recession. I just out hustled you, right, I got there first, I was willing to work in the rain, I was willing to do whatever it took to get that job and get it done. I wasn't always great. I wasn't always perfect. But I'll tell you what, I outwork you. And it showed. And that is true in every marketplace. Okay, now we want to be smart, right? You want to be smart, and you or you want to be first and if you so you want you to be first by hustling. Now let's get smart. Okay, so take the minimum amount it takes to live to live on. And that's what you pay yourself. Everything else goes towards an asset, a life insurance policy money in the bank, you know, purchasing a piece of real estate, anything it takes to build assets. Your business is a lead generator to purchase assets, right your business every day, your profit and loss, how much I make versus how much I own. All it does is ensure you have something to come to work to the next day. That's it. It doesn't show you how good or how healthy your businesses it just means how well you're managing your cash flow. And do I have enough money to show up for tomorrow. It's your balance sheet, how much I own minus how much I owe tells me what I'm worth. That's the true wealth. So your job is to is to live on the minimum you have to live on. And then take everything else and plow it into savings, investments, assets, you name it, assets come in three classes, paper assets, stocks, bonds, you know, insurance, that sort of thing. Real estate, and other businesses. And so you do that during this time. And remember you can always out hustle the other person no matter what you will be you'll you will do fine in this marketplace.Jim Padilla:
So, man, I can listen to this all day I can have this conversation going a lot of different directions. I know people are going to want to hear more of what you have to say, Carl, what wisdom we can share. How are we going to put them in touch with you? I know we've got access to your podcasts and you know how else can people get some good insights and resources from you?Carl Gould:
Sure, well, best place to find me is on my personal website Carl three sixty.com ca RL 360 dot com. That's where all of my social media any way that you need to interact me interact with me is all there in one spot. So try me there and that's the best way that that we can meet Open intersect.Jim Padilla:
Excellent. So that'll be in the show notes. And reach out, I want to make sure you guys are reaching out asking find out if there's something that there's something you're struggling with that you want more clarity about, Carl is definitely one of the best resources I know to be able to get started on that path. He may not be the person that can help you solve all your problems. But he can give you some good insights and put you on the right direction and connect you with the right people that can help. So make sure you take advantage jump into the show notes and get that I feel like you got something else inside of you short girl, there's just one what's one nugget of wisdom that you want to be able to share with people so they can walk away feeling like this was an incredible value?Carl Gould:
Right on right on? Well, look, two thirds of the Fortune 500 companies were started in a recession. recessions are the time when the bold, the when the bold come out, when people take chances. And most most importantly, they bet on themselves. This is the best time to bet on yourself. Okay, there is so little competition for the number one spot, everybody's fighting for everything else. There's almost no competition there. Define Your Niche, set a goal to be number one in that niche, pursue it hard hustle your assets, hustle your assets, and you will and protect your cash. And you will be very, very successful in business. I started my business I started in coaching when coaching wasn't even in wasn't even an industry wasn't even a job. When I said to people, I want to be a professional coach. They said, Really, that's cool, what sport I'm like, I'm gonna be a life coach and a results coach and a business coach. And they're like, Well, you can do that, like it didn't even exist. So now, you know, now, the future favors the bold, and, and there are so many tools out there that can help you get around a peer group that's also trying to do the same thing, Jim and I know each other from a peer group, you know, and they will support you and help you to make sure that you get where you're going. If you're an entrepreneur, you're only one in 15 people, right? You can't go to your normal circles to to get support. You've got to find other entrepreneurs, you know, once you hit a million you wanted 600 people, right? So it's hard for you to find a peer. So get around people who want what you want and are pursuing what you want. We are a very small group, no matter what size business you are, we there were a small group, so we have to stick together.Jim Padilla:
Amen to that. Carl, appreciate you, man. Thanks for all the insights and wisdom and make sure you guys go connect, sync up, find out what you can and take action. Fortune favors the bold, can't say a better myself, go out there and take action and surprise yourself with what things you'll be able to create with all of the opportunities that are around you. Right now. All right. So make sure you rate review, subscribe, do all the things you know you're supposed to do. Share this with anybody. Pause it, bookmark it. If you're on the treadmill or drivers you can come back to it listen later, some really good simple wisdom and insights that Carl has laid out. As always, thank you for trusting us to be part of your success team. We know that you could be anywhere else and you chose to be here so we always appreciate your time. Go make opportunities, create impact, make a lot of money. We'll see you on the next episode.